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{"contentId":"1655267","authorDomain":"miguel-llanos"}

How to value a life? EPA devalues its figure

So is this a sincere effort by the EPA to make its best estimate of how to value a life when it comes to weighing the costs/benefits of rulemaking? Or is it, as critics argue, a political ploy to weaken pollution rules?

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{"commentId":2162328,"authorDomain":"pinkpanther87413"}

Is it not nice to know that we are worth less, as things cost more! employers pay less, or just bail out of country, and no employer is uncorrupted, not one. So how much are we worth. Lets everyone stop work for a week, and see if they think we are worth a tad more, or get the WH out of EPA buisn! Funny after the WTC, they found a homeless mans family, at the cost of 1.5 million,he was begging money at the time, and had not returned home in 20 years!! WE still paid his family 4.5 million for a beggar??? Seems to me DC thinks its own people are less than worthless again! So much for our troops in some states [as the Federal gov has yet to do any thing about it] they receive death benefits as would active duty. 25,000 for Guard and Reserve, or 400,000 for active, states pay the difference, or some states do not! Not yet, or not at all, they follow suit with Uncle Sam, your worthless because your dead, and your family is not our problem, we are the USA and do not have to abide by any promises made to troops! They are our tools, to do with as we see fit, period! Face it, cost goes up, life ain't worth a plug dime, why do you think drunks who kill, walk in less than 5 years??? Murders live, example Scott Peterson still lives, and will die with more compassion, than anyone gave Terri Schrivo! If we are not Worth the time of day! How much is a politician worth, bet i would get billed instead of paid!

{"commentId":2162328,"threadId":"310620","contentId":"1655267","authorDomain":"pinkpanther87413"}
    Reply#1 - Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:21 PM EDT
    {"commentId":2162945,"authorDomain":"patter1"}

    this is a sincere effort by an incompetent bush appointee to devalue americans, with the 10 to 12% inflation rate we actually have do to the Treasury printing trillions of fiat dollars per year soon an american will be worth nothing. also makes the war cheaper since soldiers are worth less.

    {"commentId":2162945,"threadId":"310620","contentId":"1655267","authorDomain":"patter1"}
      Reply#2 - Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:51 PM EDT
      {"commentId":2163002,"authorDomain":"mw-joe"}

      denial, lies and selling out America--Bush legacy

      {"commentId":2163002,"threadId":"310620","contentId":"1655267","authorDomain":"mw-joe"}
        Reply#3 - Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:03 PM EDT
        {"commentId":2163007,"authorDomain":"hal-kempthorne"}

        $900,000 less??? That must George Bush in the hole!!

        {"commentId":2163007,"threadId":"310620","contentId":"1655267","authorDomain":"hal-kempthorne"}
          Reply#4 - Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:04 PM EDT
          {"commentId":2163097,"authorDomain":"thinkmore"}

          All of these comments criticizing lowering the value are not taking into account whether the old value is correct. The point of the research behind much of this literature is to use better data and better, more scientific methods to determine what the true value of a statistical life is. To do this, researchers look at the amount of money you would have to pay someone to take a riskier or more dangerous job. As that pay changes, or people are willing to take riskier jobs for less, the value of a "statistical" life changes.

          {"commentId":2163097,"threadId":"310620","contentId":"1655267","authorDomain":"thinkmore"}
          • 1 vote
          Reply#5 - Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:19 PM EDT
          {"commentId":2163106,"authorDomain":"hiddensight"}
          mark-370992Deleted
          {"commentId":2163144,"authorDomain":"antepenultimate"}

          This is one more example of the government trying to put one over on the public. It is impossible that the EPA could have been unaware of the consequences of the reassessment. They believed that nobody would notice it. This administration has stooped to duplicity so often that it is business as usual for them. Once again lives are valued below profits. Washington now serves K Street, not the public.

          {"commentId":2163144,"threadId":"310620","contentId":"1655267","authorDomain":"antepenultimate"}
            Reply#7 - Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:26 PM EDT
            {"commentId":2163198,"authorDomain":"todd-gandy"}

            Life is worth far more than any study can put a value on it. Who cares what the EPA thinks! We are endowed by our creator with life. I wish the government would spend more time thinking about how to serve the people and less about what we are worth or how they can raise our taxes! We are Americans and there is a reason so many people want in this country. It is because we are worth a lot.

            {"commentId":2163198,"threadId":"310620","contentId":"1655267","authorDomain":"todd-gandy"}
            • 1 vote
            Reply#8 - Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:37 PM EDT
            {"commentId":2163790,"authorDomain":"daniel4242"}

            endowed by our creator? You mean your mom and dad? There is no other "Creator".

            {"commentId":2163790,"threadId":"310620","contentId":"1655267","authorDomain":"daniel4242"}
              #8.1 - Thu Jul 10, 2008 10:24 PM EDT
              {"commentId":2164263,"authorDomain":"jltdubs"}

              My, my, Dan And I thought you weren't a Democrat! Aren't Dems the only ones who would dare fathom not believing in an omnipotent creator? Tsk, tsk. Be nice.

              {"commentId":2164263,"threadId":"310620","contentId":"1655267","authorDomain":"jltdubs"}
                #8.2 - Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:31 PM EDT
                Reply
                {"commentId":2163218,"authorDomain":"hiddensight"}
                mark-370992Deleted
                {"commentId":2163230,"authorDomain":"eddsamuelson"}

                on valuing life: it is valueFULL, it was god given to be revered, loved and nurtured, and encouraged to create the best for all of humanity. my comments are from my observations of life, and how individuals and institutions see to have lost sight of the primary values of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. it is also an expression of how i see life and how it seems so out of balance when some are paid so much, and many live with so little, and yet there is great arrogance and greed, and certainly pride for appearing to be better than the masses. on this earth, we are all part of the total mass of humanity.

                what i believe is worth less are the many many people paid excessive salaries while many in the world starve. i.e., celebrities who entertain to numb the masses, CEO´s who's salaries dwarf salaries of our government officials. our government senators and representatives who have a 14% effectiveness rating and yet are paid far above the average salary. life is simply worth, it is god given to be valued by everyone.

                it seems like our institutions have distorted values of what is truly important. in the name of war untold billions are spent. in the name of corporate business untold billions are spent. there seems to be so little focus on bringing peace, on sharing the wealth, on providing global health care, or food for everyone, or shelter for those in need.

                there seems to be little courage beyond OBAMA to speak up and call a slug a slug, or a thief a thief, or a corrupt politician corrupt, or a dis-functional BUSH government administration polluted, mean and self serving.

                there seem to be little courage to try bush and Cheney for war crimes against humanity, and yet documentaries like ´´why we fight,´´ and ´´no end in sight.´´ document why criminal proceedings should be filed and the people freed from the current oppression.

                there seems to be little courage to take on the corporation as that psychotic organization that has stripped so many people of their humanity in the name of money. just watch the documentary, THE CORPORATION, and it becomes evident that the lack of humanity in the corporate culture gives corporations licence to do as much harm as possible in the name of greed, arrogance and money. IBM supplied the inventory control system for the Nazis to track the humans sent to be gasses, and yes, they were paid.

                there seems to be little courage to develop a value system based upon providing approaches to happiness and peace for all of the people of the world. more than anything, there does not seem to be global leadership that gathers in the name of truly standing for a fair and just world. we have such brilliant and talented people, it is time for them to take a STAND for a better world, and not tolerate DRUG CARTELS, CRIMINAL GOVERNMENTS, VIOLENT DICTATORS.....maybe the United Nations needs to become a strong and controlling body for a kinder and gentler world.

                i have many questions and curiosities in our world.

                {"commentId":2163230,"threadId":"310620","contentId":"1655267","authorDomain":"eddsamuelson"}
                  Reply#10 - Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:42 PM EDT
                  {"commentId":2163283,"authorDomain":"hiddensight"}
                  mark-370992Deleted
                  {"commentId":2163353,"authorDomain":"hiddensight"}
                  mark-370992Deleted
                  {"commentId":2163456,"authorDomain":"sultara-of-the-cold-1"}

                  You know, I can not help but notice the fact that this is all about a life, and it being worth a certain amount....What ever happened to life being priceless? Something you can't just say one person's life is more important then anothers? A child who'd life is not so grand, and an adult that is the head of a large rich company; when compared to who you would try to save first, I would save the child, and most I know would do the same. It does not matter if that child will grow to make a lot of money for this country or not. I'm pretty sure firefighters and other rescuers do not stop to think if the person's life is worth the effort, risk, and money invovled in the equipment. By putting a price on a life, comparing it to somthing like world polution, then saying the money and effort is not worth those people's lives that are effected, is to me, inhumane, ignorant, selfcentered, blind and f'ing retarded.
                  In a book called THE BEST AMERICAN ESSAYS of 2007, there is an essay written by Peter Singer, called WHAT SHOULD A BILLIONAIRE GIVE_AND WHAT SHOULD YOU? that relates a bit to this, and puts quite a perspective on it all and the world's poverty vs wealth....Just thought I would let some know who might be interested....

                  {"commentId":2163456,"threadId":"310620","contentId":"1655267","authorDomain":"sultara-of-the-cold-1"}
                    Reply#13 - Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:28 PM EDT
                    {"commentId":2163601,"authorDomain":"hiddensight"}
                    mark-370992Deleted
                    {"commentId":2163699,"authorDomain":"hiddensight"}
                    mark-370992Deleted
                    {"commentId":2163801,"authorDomain":"hiddensight"}
                    mark-370992Deleted
                    {"commentId":2163926,"authorDomain":"hiddensight"}
                    mark-370992Deleted
                    {"commentId":2163934,"authorDomain":"JohninJax"}

                    Does this mean we also have to return our $600 government stimulus check? Or was it originally $800 and reduced like our personal value?

                    {"commentId":2163934,"threadId":"310620","contentId":"1655267","authorDomain":"JohninJax"}
                      Reply#18 - Thu Jul 10, 2008 10:45 PM EDT
                      {"commentId":2163935,"authorDomain":"DavidDMoore"}

                      So who died and made the EPA (of all agencies) god? This government is so out of whack it's not even SNL fodder.

                      EPA
                      FEMA
                      FCC

                      and all the rest should be discarded and rebuilt from scratch.

                      Starting with that behemoth Homeland Security.

                      {"commentId":2163935,"threadId":"310620","contentId":"1655267","authorDomain":"DavidDMoore"}
                        Reply#19 - Thu Jul 10, 2008 10:45 PM EDT
                        {"commentId":2163998,"authorDomain":"chill-1"}

                        I cant believe that there is even a study that tries to put a value to human life.

                        If you are not already prepared there is a short time left where you can have a plan for the coming financial colapse and inevitable WW3.

                        Plant a garden, store food, learn a trade skill that you can barter because US Currency will be worth less than dirt.

                        We are about to become a 3rd world country.......everybody but the people in power positions of course.

                        When people can no longer afford to go to work because the cost of gas makes them break even and when food becomes so expensive only the rich will be able to afford meat, there will be another civil war.

                        I'm also a little concerned about what will happen if Obama gets elected, or more so if he doesn't. Race war anyone?

                        {"commentId":2163998,"threadId":"310620","contentId":"1655267","authorDomain":"chill-1"}
                          Reply#20 - Thu Jul 10, 2008 10:53 PM EDT
                          {"commentId":2164055,"authorDomain":"tobucks"}

                          You really want for interesting reading then you do the math, how much is the EPA worth collectively speaking? I got along for nearly half century without them, I think I can do without them for ever.

                          {"commentId":2164055,"threadId":"310620","contentId":"1655267","authorDomain":"tobucks"}
                          • 1 vote
                          Reply#21 - Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:00 PM EDT
                          {"commentId":2164157,"authorDomain":"dwgerard"}

                          All this study proves is this quote:

                          There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics. Benjamin Disraeli (1804 - 1881)

                          Statistics can show pretty much anything. When you are working in such a abstract as putting a value on a person's life, something that could never be proven, statistics usually just fulfill the political views of the statistician or whomever paid for the study.

                          These so called studies would be much better served if they dealt with the real source of polution on this planet, China, India and the developing world. The only true solution is to do the hard science of making alternate energy sources such as fusion power universally available. When these scientists begin to work in that direction, I might begin to take them seriously.

                          {"commentId":2164157,"threadId":"310620","contentId":"1655267","authorDomain":"dwgerard"}
                            Reply#22 - Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:13 PM EDT
                            {"commentId":2164418,"authorDomain":"jltdubs"}

                            Amen to that, Wayne. Another big problem is overpopulation. We all think we need to procreate. The American family with 18 kids nearly made me barf! It's so irresponsible--this planet cannot continue to sustain such growth. . .

                            {"commentId":2164418,"threadId":"310620","contentId":"1655267","authorDomain":"jltdubs"}
                              #22.1 - Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:58 PM EDT
                              Reply
                              {"commentId":2164482,"authorDomain":"janjer1"}

                              The ultimate capitalist perversion. Putting a monetary value on a human life. We have truly crossed over into hell on earth when we can seriously discuss how much money a life is worth. Welcome to hell - the evil one is smiling a bloody grin! Greed is good - killing innocent civilians is now collateral damage - in god we trust is a mere slogan on our money - war for oil is acceptable - more poor than ever but more millionaires too - more foreclosures - more families living in cars - more death for profit - our children learn to kill from video games - etc - etc - etc. We are living in hell - congratulations greed-heads!

                              {"commentId":2164482,"threadId":"310620","contentId":"1655267","authorDomain":"janjer1"}
                                Reply#23 - Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:10 AM EDT
                                {"commentId":2164541,"authorDomain":"clmessina"}

                                Asinine mental shell game to support poor policies. I have to wonder how much was spent on this research. Can we get $900,000 of that money back to give someone more value or has the money just switched hands from the value of one's life to the actual value in some gov't lackey's bank account? Our deficits aren't just monetary, they're intellectual as well.

                                {"commentId":2164541,"threadId":"310620","contentId":"1655267","authorDomain":"clmessina"}
                                  Reply#24 - Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:21 AM EDT
                                  {"commentId":2164615,"authorDomain":"clmessina"}

                                  Does anyone else find the government modeling decision making on insurance models cynical? Isn't the finance cycle of an insurance company vastly different from a government with different expected outcomes? Insurance companies hope you die before you make a claim and never pull out the money from your policy. You are only worth what you pay to an insurance company.

                                  Citizens create the GDP and tax base for governments. Shouldn't our worth be the potential contribution to that figure and not 'what we would pay to stay safe'?

                                  {"commentId":2164615,"threadId":"310620","contentId":"1655267","authorDomain":"clmessina"}
                                    Reply#25 - Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:36 AM EDT
                                    {"commentId":2164661,"authorDomain":"clmessina"}

                                    By the way, these religious fanatics here are too weird. I'm not sure how religion fits into this discussion at all. The article (and study) are not necessarily placing an actual value on life or one that has much meaning other than toward policy making. The policy may be debateble but the reasoning isn't far fetched or Machiavellian. As I pointed out in a prior post, insurance companies and airlines have been using such models for years.

                                    What should be up for discussion is whether our resources can be kept clean through government methods or by private corporations.

                                    If I were to weigh in on that question I would say we have to wait until the environment is nearly destroyed before people will find it more profitable to keep it clean than continue to destroy it. What is somewhat sickening is how we're reaching a turning point in resource abuse (i.e. more consciousness about the value of our natural resources) but are allowing our third world trade partners to move down the same path we've done in the name of cheap goods and ongoing quarterly profits. Not that I care about China, but can we, in good conscious, allow them to ruin their country just to keep Wal-Mart afloat?

                                    {"commentId":2164661,"threadId":"310620","contentId":"1655267","authorDomain":"clmessina"}
                                      Reply#26 - Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:46 AM EDT
                                      {"commentId":2164718,"authorDomain":"dozier1"}

                                      First of all no one and no government organization can decide what a life is truly worth. That is how the article is wrote, but the way the study is being conducted it seems they are saying less government regulation because of the lower value. One example of an EPA regulation is when all of the environmentalists were screaming about the sulfur levels in fuel. So the EPA passed a law to have all sulfur removed at a certain point during the refining process. No one thought to ask how much sulfur was needed for the fuel to burn and help the engine run properly. So at the end of the process the refineries have to put the same amount back in that they are required to remove, because fuel already had the minimum amount of sulfur needed for a gasoline and/or diesel engine to run properly. Of course the expense the refineries pay to follow that little law gets passed on to the consumer. That is only one example of what you are needlessly paying for at the pump and elsewhere because of government regulation and environmental lobbyists.

                                      If it means less government regulation they should continue to lower the value. All of you people who are waiting for the government or someone else to improve your lives need to stop wishing and start acting, life isn't easy and no law is going to change that. We all are responsible for our own decisions and actions and should always try to be prepared for any situation we may put ourselves in. If you want something you should have an intelligent plan on how to obtain it with as few ifs and buts as possible and you should never buy something you don't need just to compete with someone else.

                                      That's just my two cents.

                                      {"commentId":2164718,"threadId":"310620","contentId":"1655267","authorDomain":"dozier1"}
                                      • 1 vote
                                      Reply#27 - Fri Jul 11, 2008 1:01 AM EDT
                                      {"commentId":2164953,"authorDomain":"annoyed"}

                                      consider that social security pays $250 to your spouse when you die, assuming you qualify and the total net worth of a dead body is about $6 bucks, I say the governments calculations are very generous considering what the enemies consider a human life to be worth, like zero. Leave it to the EPA, the loser of finds to be distraught over the whole thing. the EPA used to be worth something just like ACLU but both organizations have overstepped their boundaries and are now less effective. They both should stick to what they know, what is right and let the rest go. just my opinion.

                                      {"commentId":2164953,"threadId":"310620","contentId":"1655267","authorDomain":"annoyed"}
                                        Reply#28 - Fri Jul 11, 2008 2:39 AM EDT
                                        {"commentId":2166006,"authorDomain":"ddoghouse"}

                                        I find it ludicrous that the government is even in this business. The answer is to eliminate the EPA and all other such non-Constitutionally mandated agencies. Then there will be no cost associated with regulations.

                                        {"commentId":2166006,"threadId":"310620","contentId":"1655267","authorDomain":"ddoghouse"}
                                        • 1 vote
                                        Reply#29 - Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:06 AM EDT
                                        {"commentId":2166238,"authorDomain":"antepenultimate"}

                                        Walt,
                                        As a refinery chemical engineer, I can assure that you are badly mistaken about a "minimum" amount of sulfur being necessary for combustion. Sulfur is removed because it causes corrosion. It forms sulfuric and sulfurous acid, and several very poisonous gases, including hydrogen sulfide. It causes millions of dollars worth of damage to refinery equipment. That is why "sweet" - low sulfur - crude is so much more value that sour crude. Nobody adds sulfur back to fuel or to any other petroleum products. Your information is absolutely false.

                                        {"commentId":2166238,"threadId":"310620","contentId":"1655267","authorDomain":"antepenultimate"}
                                          Reply#30 - Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:38 AM EDT
                                          {"commentId":2166655,"authorDomain":"dozier1"}

                                          Jerry,

                                          I can take you out to a refinery where the whole process occurs and you can see for yourself.

                                          {"commentId":2166655,"threadId":"310620","contentId":"1655267","authorDomain":"dozier1"}
                                          • 1 vote
                                          Reply#31 - Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:30 AM EDT
                                          {"commentId":2167084,"authorDomain":"rolon518-1"}

                                          I'm not surprised. The EPA is controlled by the Bush administration. The former EPA director confirmed that Cheney deleted important information pertaining to global warming. They don't care about you. Bush claims to be a Christian, but starts a war. How ironic. As far as Bush is concerned; when it comes to the value of human life, you ain't worth $hit!!!

                                          {"commentId":2167084,"threadId":"310620","contentId":"1655267","authorDomain":"rolon518-1"}
                                            Reply#32 - Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:24 PM EDT
                                            {"commentId":2169257,"authorDomain":"prtainoaz"}

                                            I would like to know what is the assigned value of our commander in chief Mr. Cheney (soo!) or our figurehead in chief Mr. Bush.
                                            While we are at it how about Brad Pitt or Tiger Woods.

                                            We are hurting business and our God (In $ We Trust) with all these regulating agencies.

                                            Dismantle the EPA, FAA, NIH, FDA, on and on. After all it all hurts business!
                                            We can look towards a time when all decisions will be made based on what is best for the 1% that already own U.S.
                                            We can emulate China where unbridled Capitalism tied to a Totalitarian Regime (we nearly have this already) has the people there... eating poop, drinking poop, breathing poop, exporting poop....
                                            Call me a Communist if you will. Thank God the Supreme Court got one right. The 2nd Amendment I for one, I am ready to take up arms to put power back in the hands of 'We the People'. So help me GOD.

                                            {"commentId":2169257,"threadId":"310620","contentId":"1655267","authorDomain":"prtainoaz"}
                                              Reply#33 - Fri Jul 11, 2008 5:07 PM EDT
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